S4E1: Jon White-Spunner's Retirement

The Resident Acting Company sits down with long-time Managing Director, Jon White-Spunner to discuss his retirement, his time at BTE, and what's next on the horizon. 

Jon served BTE for nearly 20 years with love, care, and a whole lot of heart. He's one of the nicest men you will ever meet and BTE will miss him dearly, but we wish him the best of luck in everything that is to come. 

Recorded and Edited by: Amy Rene Byrne

Original Music by: Aaron White

Transcripts of all Season 2-4 episodes are available on our Buzzsprout website.

Check out our current season: http://www.bte.org
Ensemble Driven. Professional Theatre. Arts Education. Rural Pennsylvania. For Everyone. With Everyone.

Transcript

Bloomsburg Theatre Ensemble: Down Center

S4 E2:Jon's Retirement

Amy: Welcome to Bloomsburg Theater Ensemble Down Center, a podcast where we share our love for our company, our people, our art, and our town front and down center. Hello all. I'm Amy Rene Byrne, and I'm here with 

Aaron: Aaron White 

And Kimie Muroya. 

Amy: And we are sitting down today with BTE's, now former managing director John White-Spunner to discuss his retirement. So, John, how many years did you work for BTE? 

Jon: I started in 1999, November, 1999, and I was five.

It ended May of 2025, but you have to take out, I think it's five years going up to Boston and where I was in Stoneham, not Boston Stoneham. 

Amy: Ah. 

Jon: I thought I was going to Boston, but I was told by a board member up there. No, we are Stoneham. We are not Boston. You're only nine miles outside.

But. 

Amy: Is it like the difference between like Bloomsburg and Danville? 

Jon: Or, oh, very much. Okay. Very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

So I guess that's what, 19 years approximately. 

Amy: Oh, that's a really, a really long time. 

Jon: I think, and I'm not sure, I haven't got any proof of this.

I think I'm the longest serving in that pos in that position. 

Amy: I bet. Yeah. Who, uh, who did you take over from? I, 

Jon: I came in, Steve Bevins was the Managing Director, and then there was a gap for a little while, and after he left, then they. Then I came in, I'm not quite sure when he left. But I, I came in in November of 1999.

Amy: 1999. Hmm. 

Kimie: Now why'd you leave? And, and then why'd you come back? 

Jon: I came back. I came back because I really liked the people and I liked, the world that was created here. When I went up to Boston to what was then Stoneham theater, which, 

Kimie: Sorry. Yeah, I was gonna say you weren't in Boston, which, 

Jon: thank you.

Amy: Do you wanna kick her, Jon? 

Jon: I can't. Um, she purposely got my legs stuck under the table there. Um, but I went up there because I think Lydia and I wanted out of this small town. Because we were getting, you know, we lived down on west third street, corner of Jefferson and Third.

And I think, the, um, the feces smeared on the side of the house was like a moment for Lydia. And that wasn't the best place for us to be living. It was just too much of a thoroughfare and the house didn't have any, protection around it.

Not really. So and she wanted to, work in a big city again. So that was the motivation for leaving. And coming back, there was a part of this that I missed that I wasn't getting there. And we, we had some other personal reasons that at the time made it seem like this was a good move for, another member of the family. Didn't turn out that way, but yeah. So there was a combination of reasons. 

Kimie: So how did you come to BTE? Like how, how did you find BTE and become connected with-- 

Jon: Art Search. 

Kimie: Okay. You were on the hunt. There wasn't a prior established connection or anything? 

Jon: No, I was, I mean, it's kind of funny. We were living in California. I was teaching in the Theatre Department at USC. 

Kimie: Mm-hmm. 

Jon: And I was also running the theatre that myself and a couple of other people had started the 24th Street Theater down in that adam's area of the city, just very close to USC, and I don't know if anyone knows the geography down there, but it used to be called South Central, which had a really bad rap, and then they rebranded it to Center City South.

But it was pretty gang ridden and, whatever down there. But I was doing way more than I really could properly. And I wanted to be in one job. I mean, that was one, one motivation. 

And, Art Search. So I, I looked and I found this company and I applied and I got a phone call.

And coincidentally I discovered that the members of the company who were touring in Africa, 'cause they took a show. 

Amy: Was that the shadow puppet? 

Jon: No, 

Aaron: it was Follow the Drinking Gourd, wasn't it? 

Jon: No, no, no. 

Kimie: It was along the Susquehanna. 

Jon: It was, it was along the Susquehanna. Oh. And that those members of the company, they were touring in different parts of Africa.

They went to Zimbabwe, they went to Zambia, they went to Namibia, which was in southwest Africa. They couldn't perform in South Africa because of apartheid, but they visited Johannesburg and they came to the Market Theater. To see a show and it just so happens I was at the market theater at the time that they came to see the show.

I didn't meet them, I didn't know, but they came to see an Athol Fugard play that was happening at the time. And so we crossed paths in a funny kind of strange way. Yeah. There. And so yeah, that's how I came. 

Amy: Theatre can be a really small world sometimes. 

Jon: It's a very small world. It's a very small world. So, yeah, that was my intro here. And of course when Lydia and I came here, cause part of the motivation for Lydia was, well it's not far from New York. And she'd been, uh, working in New York before she went to LA or before we moved to LA.

And I think she kind of thought that I wouldn't survive in New York, which is why she, her agent also moved to LA and so she was kind of following her agent, but I think she thought New York was probably not my speed. 

Amy: And LA is? 

Jon: LA was different. 

Kimie: LA and New York are very different vibes. 

Yeah.

Jon: It's, LA's a kind of place where. I think it took me about five years to really figure it out and to like it. And what it is is a bunch of villages. Yeah. And when you find your villages, then it's okay. And it's okay. It's a lot of traveling and it's, I know it's gotten a lot worse, but when you find the places that you feel comfortable in then you can really enjoy the, the huge amount of kind of diversity and the, just the, all the different things that are going on there. 

Kimie: And you gotta say LA 

Amy: Oh do you?, 

Jon: Well, Lydia could do that. La Lydia could do that. She was a valley girl. Yeah. I mean, she was a typical valley girl, and if you ever asked her to put that accent on, it was like, boom.

Aaron: She had it. 

Kimie: It's a very funny one. 

Jon: She she was the Black Valley girl and I was the white, you know the white African. That's, that was our-- 

Aaron: Just breaking stereotypes, like right and left. 

Jon: There we go. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Yep. So that's how I got here. 

Kimie: Very cool. 

Jon: Mary Clap picked me up at the airport though.

Amy: Oh man. 

Jon: She was on the board then. And Luke Black was the board president. So he constantly either. Prides himself or blames himself for the fact that I became the Managing Director. Yep. 

Amy: Oh, wow. Uh, who was the rest of the company at that time?

Jon: Uh, nobody who's here now. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Jon: Um, Jerry, Laurie, Jim, Elizabeth-- 

Amy: Was Tom here? 

Jon: Yeah, I think Tom was. Yeah, and Danny and Andy had just, they just joined right when I arrived yeah.

Aaron: And Sandy and Richie would've come in. 

Jon: They came in later. 

Aaron: Yeah, about two or three years later. 

Jon: Yeah. I think it was Sandy then, Richie. 

Aaron: Yeah. Correct. 

Jon: Yeah, And the production team at the time when I joined Jerry Metheny was the, was the I think he was Production Manager. 

Aaron: He was the first Stage Manager to be part of the ensemble. 

Jon: Yeah, And, um, Nick Troisi was in the shop. 

Kimie: Oh, his autograph or signature is in the concrete floor in the props room.

Correct. 

Jon: Oh, okay. Yeah. 

Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

He poured the floor

Jon: yeah. Nick was one of those just wonderful crafts people. We've had some really wonderful craft people Yeah. In that shop. And I dunno if you've ever heard of Nick's house. I mean, Nick built his house from ground up. 

And it's out near, it's out just a little bit beyond Millville, and it's a real work of art.

I mean, it really is one of those places that you just, I think you will never stop. Adding on and little bits and pieces, but he had that skillset. 

Kimie: So I do that. But in video games, my, my Sims house is never finished. 

Amy: That's a much nicer parallel than I was gonna draw. I was gonna say it's like a non morbid Winchester house.

Jon: Yeah. And oh, Bob Tevis was here and Diara Dodge, they were in the Marketing Department who was in the office.

I can't remember who was in the office. Cindy was here way back when, but I don't think she was here right at that point. Yeah. I can't remember. 

Amy: You came into one makeup of theatre when you came back? How different was it? 

Jon: It wasn't ' cause I left in. 2005, 2006. I came back in 2011. It wasn't that much different, I don't think.

You know, the, the model was the same. People were doing the same kind of thing. I'm trying to remember, at one point we were sending out two TIC companies and doing a lot more shows. And I think that was one difference. We were also getting funded by the NEA for TIC on a regular basis. And I can't remember whether that changed before I got back or after I got back. And I, I blamed that on the fact that they stopped doing site visits because when they did a site visit, they came and they saw what was happening in the context that it was happening. Being online, just being all, all sent out digitally to people who had no connection, no context. So the materials had to really, really be stand on their own. They had to stand on their own, whereas we were always able to, the materials were okay, but the, the, the context. Yeah. They would come and they would see the space and they would see, and they like, oh my God, you do all of this from here and all. So it really, the human contact was lost. 

Aaron: Yeah. 

Jon: And that made, I think that made a big difference. 

Amy: feel like that's happened a lot in funding. 

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. It's about human contact. 

Aaron: Yeah. It 

Jon: really is. 

Aaron: I don't think I realized that we left Pennsylvania at the exact same time.

Jon: Where did you go? 

Aaron: I went to Baltimore and then Ohio, and then Houston, and then New York. 

Jon: Oh, 

Aaron: yeah, From 2005 to 2011, I, that was me trying to escape Pennsylvania. 

Jon: Okay. 

Aaron: And I came back in 2011 too. Okay. 

Kimie: That's funny. 'cause I came back to Pennsylvania in 2005 from Australia and then left. 

Aaron: So none of us were here at the same time. 

Kimie: Then left a year later to go to Canada. Mm-hmm. 

Amy: And I didn't make it to Pennsylvania until 2013. 

Jon: oh, Scott Atherton was the Development Director when I came at the time. Yeah. And Scott, when I left, I think he said He'll be back.

People always come back. So he was also the person who talked to me about trains to New York 

Aaron: About how to get to New York from here?

Jon: Well, yeah. Yeah. On the one hand, he was spot on, and on the other hand, he was less than spot on. Mm-hmm. 

Aaron: Because there were no trains from Bloomsburg 

Jon: the idea for Lydia was she's here, she's only 160 miles from New York, so she can get access and. "Oh yeah. They, they're talking about trains and it's going to, you know, not now, but it, they're, it's, it's" yeah. 

Kimie: And get one of those high speed rails. Oh, what 

Jon: that, and they're still talking about it outta Scranton and who the heck knows. Yeah. Be good. So, so yeah. 

Kimie: I was gonna say, if, he was prophetic about you coming back, I should ask him about

lottery numbers, but that if the train thing, I just messed it up for you. Maybe just kind of a, just kind of a wash there, so I'm so sorry. Yeah. I mean, 

Amy: I think he would use those numbers for himself. I would. 

Kimie: If I won the lottery, BTE would get a chunk. 

Jon: I think a lot of people I here who have worked here or been around and know and have all have said that, oh yeah, I wouldn't, but most people would just no, really, I would, no, really, it would depend on how much I got out.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Amy: I think we'd pay our debts first. Yes. And then there would be a chunk that went to BTE. 

Aaron: Yeah. 

Kimie: I've always had a fantasy of just being so, so wealthy that I could just give money to arts organizations. 

Amy: Right. 

Kimie: How nice That must be. 

Amy: I wanna return back to the days when artists were funded by rich people.

Like you would have your artists that you had a patron. Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Kimie: I could be a patron and particularly Tchaikovsky, I believe it was, had this one patron who, she met him one time, found him utterly deplorable in person. Was like, I will continue paying you to make the art that you make. Never talk to me again.

Jon: Yeah. I think there have been fundraising campaigns along the lines of We will never ever talk to you just as long as you give us money. We won't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Amy: We won't bother you. 

Jon: Yeah. Just please give us money. Yeah. 

Kimie: Buy my silence. 

Aaron: That's a really good segue because you have been asking for money for BTE for a really long time, like that's been a big part of your life. And I think the successes in the last 19 years, because Raise was, raise the region around when you first started? 

Jon: No, raise. The region started I think in 2012. 2013? Yeah. I think that was, 

Aaron: and since its inception, I know that that is, I mean, that's become your Super Bowl to a certain degree.

Jon: I have enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah, I have enjoyed it. 

Kimie: This little smirk on, on John's face right now. 

Amy: He's really good at it. 

Jon: Well, thank you Amy. there's been a number of aspects of it that I have enjoyed. one of them is seeing BTE at the top of the leaderboard. That's number one. Number two is winning the grand prize as many times as we did, and we won it for like eight times in a row. So I loved that. I'm not competitive in any way, but I, I love that. 

Amy: I disagree. 

Jon: Um, the other, but the other part, the more, the less tangible part of it was the connections to the people through, over the years who have supported BTE and continued to support BTEI got to have conversations with people and sometimes I felt a little guilty about it because.

In the course of things, it was just once a year. But people were expecting the call. They'd been getting stuff online, they'd be getting emails or, or stuff, and it would be saying, it's coming up. And , when I called, they go, oh, okay. We were wondering when you were gonna call.

and depending on who they were, some people don't wanna talk. They just in that mold of. We'll give it to you. Just tell me the time and the date and we'll do it. Mm-hmm. And then there are others who, we have long chats. Mm-hmm. And I've never met them. I don't know them, but I feel like I know them in a little way.

and people, you know, there are sometimes where the next year you're not able to call that person 'cause they passed on. 

Kimie: Mm. 

Jon: But I've enjoyed that part of it. I mean, really with fundraising, you're supposed to, you make a lot more points of contact, but in a small organization you don't always get that, get that opportunity.

But at least it offered that. And I also think it made it for just a limited time raised the awareness of what nonprofits do in the community in a way that's not, you just fall back into the, the day-to-day grind of whatever else is going on in the world. Not only in our arts aspect, but in, all the other different nonprofits who are, who are out there competing for funds.

There's that moment of "boy, this is important." 

Aaron: And there's a me yeah. And there are many, yeah. And there are many groups that are, yeah. 

Jon: Yeah. I think the last, last, last year was like, I think there were 300 different groups ranging in size. some of them were really, really small, but yeah.

Amy: Have you figured out how to monetize your retirement for BTE? 

Jon: If you've got any ideas, let me know. No, I have not figured out how to monetize anything since I left BTE and monetize. I need to do, you know, it's, my whole world has changed, so I'm just, I'm just trying to come to terms with what that all means apart from just the normal grief that, that you feel when someone as close to you as Lydia was to me who's no longer around. There's a lot of practical stuff in our particular family environment that I've gotta figure out. I have the time now for a while to figure it out you know, to at least not be worrying about a whole lot of other things I'm able to focus on. Okay. How do I keep my family unit whole? And that's been a, a large part of why I'm no longer working here. 

Amy: Yeah. Well, at BTE there's always something to worry about. Mm-hmm. A fire to put out. Mm-hmm. Something to mm-hmm. Yeah. To take your time and energy. Yeah. 

Jon: And in that vein, I just saw, I get stuff from-- 'cause, there's a fantasy part of my world where I go live on Martha's Vineyard, and that was really, Lydia's dream was to be on Martha's Vineyard. And we were fortunate enough to get to Martha's Vineyard for about a week, be for three weeks before she died, and that was wonderful. But they have a theater there called The Yard. And I got an email from them two days ago. I'm just on their, on their list. They've closed for a year. 

Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

Jon: So that they can figure it out. 

Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

Jon: You know, they've, they've purposefully taken a decision that they're not gonna do anything for a year as they reconsider everything and see what they wanna come back as.

Aaron: Yeah. 

Jon: So that's just to illustrate that. We're all in this struggle. Yeah. And 

Amy: they are not alone in that. Mm-hmm. 

Kimie: And they have, 

Amy: they've got the money base, they've got, 

Jon: there is so much money on that island. Yeah. It's like you Yeah. When I was thinking about that, they should be able to raise whatever they need.

Amy: Yeah. 

Jon: From the money that is on that island. 

Kimie: It's a miracle that any theater's surviving right now. 

Amy: Truly. 

Jon: Yeah. 

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if people understand the severity of it. I mean, we've talked a little bit on the podcast about, you know, beloved institutions closing mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And longstanding institutions closing, but 

Aaron: mm-hmm.

Amy: It's a real, it's a real financial crisis just to exist as a theater at this moment in time. Yeah. It's never been easy, but it is exceptionally hard right now. Mm-hmm. 

Jon: And it's, and it's not just about people coming back or not coming back because we've seen it here. We've seen in some instances people have come back. Misery people came back. you know, and the some of the other shows on this, that's the one that just comes to mind. But it's just that the costs after COVID just seemed to, 

Aaron: Costs and also difficult. At least in my brain for programming. It was just watching Rob Reiner on, uh, I think he was talking to Seth Meyers or mm-hmm. I can't remember. But he was, he was educating their young audience about what it used to be like to watch TV when a half to two thirds of the country would tune into the same mm-hmm. Program at the same time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so there was a sort of ubiquity or a a. General understanding by a large portion of the population about what was popular. Mm-hmm. Or what was of interest. And the sort of scattering of the nation's attention. And for us, the regional attention about what does cast the broadest net? Um, Misery would be one of those titles that everybody knows and I think. Got a lot of people excited in a way that we hadn't excited people in a long time.

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and so when we're talking about trying to get people to return, what are those ubiquitous titles that get people excited? Mm-hmm. So that along with rising costs 

mm-hmm. Um, there's a cultural shift in how people consume what they consume. Yeah. 

Jon: Yeah. 

I'm spending a lot of time looking at Brit Box, Acorn.

Aaron: Yeah. That's what we're watching right now. 

Jon: Net Netflix. Mm-hmm. Um, every now and then Peacock, but, you know, there's just, there's so much out there. 

Kimie: I'm almost exclusively watching Dropout these days. Well, yeah. Dropout, it's a, it's a online streaming platform. The folks who used to be College Humor.

When that whole company went under Sam Rech bought it out and has rebuilt an incredible, 

Aaron: Basically made an Ensemble Theater for a streaming service. 

Kimie: Yeah. 

Aaron: Is basically what happened. It's, there is the regular players that contribute. 

Jon: Huh. Huh. 

Aaron: And so you get to, you get to learn and enjoy who's on their program. And I, I get excited when I see certain names in the, mm-hmm. In, in, in the title, but their, their format often is, is games. Mm-hmm. So there, there, there are, there, there's sort of a gamification of their program. It's like almost 

Kimie: exclusively unscripted. Right. Which means that they don't have to pay writers and, and stuff.

Aaron: Or they are writers. Yeah. 

Kimie: Mm-hmm. 

Aaron: In house. 

Kimie: Yeah. A lot of times during our, our restructuring I've, thought a lot about, I mean, it's a very different industry, what Sam Reich managed to do and build out of his company that was about to like die.

I, I think a lot about that and how we can try to do the same thing. 

Jon: Well, it's about, I mean, it's evolution, right? Yeah. It's how. Technology evolves, people's response to technology evolves. There's just a lot of, there's a lot of change that, that just keeps happening. And some companies fall by the wayside. Some companies keep going. They some are able to just keep doing what they were doing. But 

Kimie: yeah 

Jon: So yeah, I mean, for me, I think what happened during COVID and that was a, you know, obviously a watershed moment in everybody's lives in many different ways, but for us it was kind of like the best of times and the worst of times because a government had to put money into the arts and you would like to think that they thought, wow, these companies actually need funding, otherwise they're gonna, they're gonna collapse.

And it was the moment when you think. All right. This is what should be happening on a regular basis. Shouldn't be waiting for pandemic to happen to mm-hmm. Fund the arts. 

Amy: Yeah. There was a moment where we could have turned a corner completely on how we look at mm-hmm. funding for the arts. Mm-hmm. And for mm-hmm. Nonprofit-- 

Kimie: yeah, there were-- 

Amy: of all kinds. 

Kimie: There was a couple of moments during COVID where I was like, is this the end of capitalism? And I was far too optimistic about that. 

Jon: You look at Europe and how, when I was touring with the show out of South Africa, I toured Europe, I toured here, I toured in Australia and in Europe.

And that was like back in the eighties. We would go to the little towns and they would be buying this show for, I don't know, 10,000 francs or 10,000 deutsch marks or whatever it was where we were going. And we'd do one or two performances. We'd be accommodated in a beautiful hotel, and they would give us two chits to the bar to go get a beer after the show.

You know? So, and that was, yeah. 30 years ago, and that's how they were doing. I'm not sure what they're doing right now, but there was that model of state funding of the arts, not just in the cities, but right across the country. 

Aaron: I'm gonna curb it there for a second. Okay. Because I, I have two questions and I'm, I'm curious what you have to say about them. You were talking a lot about having time to figure out, to imagine what your family and what your future looks like. And I guess I'll have two, two questions.

What do you hope. Dream for that? Are those things that, are you framing things in that way at all? And then you've retired from this company after being a steward of it for a long time. Do you have hopes and dreams for the company? 

Jon: Oh, that's an easy question. I mean, that's an easy question to answer.

I mean, clearly my hope and my dream is that the company continues, that the company celebrates 50. Because that in itself would be a, a huge milestone. And I think, I think if it didn't get beyond 50, it would be something to go, wow, what a wonderful thing we have all collectively done over the years to make something out of nothing and make it live and be part of this community, a vibrant part of this community for 50 years.

My hope is that's not the case. My hope is that whatever form it is, bTE continues to be a voice in the community. So that's, that's, there's no question about that. And you know, that's being maybe a little Pollyanna, but that's for myself. 

Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

Jon: I really don't know. There's a sort of out in the way, out on the edge of, possibilities. My sister and her partner are spending time in Zimbabwe, helping communities learn how to take care of their donkeys. Hmm. And their donkeys are a major part of the ecosystem in rural parts of Africa. 

Kimie: I'm just love donkey. 

Jon: A little bit about I My sister loves donkeys. She worked for the Donkey Sanctuary in Ireland for 15 years.

And, putting the, the love of donkeys into kind of trying to a) look after the donkeys a little better and, make it so as they're being treated better so the people can have better quality of life because their donkeys are helping them more. And hey. Help Raise funds for, Donkey Sanctuary I forget what they call their, their nonprofit. They just formed a nonprofit in, England to start raising funds. 

Kimie: There's a donkey sanctuary not far out of Philadelphia. 

Jon: Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Good to know. 

Kimie: yeah

Jon: I would love to go back to visit parts of Africa. I would love to take Oonagh to visit parts of Africa where I grew up. that's a sort of a dream out there, but. So much. There are so much logistics, as you might understand. There are so much logistics to be worked on, to be understood and to be figured out before any of those dreams come to pass.

So what I'm having is my time to help plan for Hannah, because I'm a single parent now. 

Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

Jon: And so we have to figure that one out. 

Aaron: Yeah. 

Jon: But yeah, 

Aaron: We were talking briefly, Amy and I were talking about. Thinking from the top down or, or from the bottom up about, um. Because I'm, I'm, I'm an individual who likes to look at the wide scope and say, well, we could be all of these things.

Jon: Mm-hmm. 

Aaron: And there's lots of possibilities if we 

Jon: mm-hmm. 

Aaron: If we shift and think our 

Jon: mm-hmm. 

Aaron: Thinking toward this direction. And Amy thinks the other way around she can see all the gaps, all the small things that need to happen and not knowing, uh, uh, 

Amy: what that sums up to 

Aaron: right. Right.

Amy: until I know 

Aaron: what does that add up to? Does the dream come first and then you fill in the details? Or do you hammer out all the details so that you can understand what your dream is?

Jon: I'm not sure. I think if you, I think if you spend too much time trying to hammer out the details in the dream doesn't happen. I think sometimes dreamers have to just dream and do, and then hopefully the details will be filled in. They might not be, but I think. I think to my life, you know, Lydia was a dreamer.

I'm a okay, what have we gotta do to make it all happen? And I frequently, I'm sure, stop myself doing things because I didn't allow the dream to happen. So 

Amy: You were bottom up and she was top down. But you know what? I think that makes a really good couple. 

Jon: For the most part. For the most part.

Amy: Not without conflict. 

Jon: Dream, dream, dream, what's the word? Dreams put off or dreams that didn't happen, and then they 

Amy: deferred 

Jon: and dreams deferred. Mm-hmm. And then they never happened, so. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Jon: And you never know when that's gonna happen. 

Amy: Oddly enough, one of the, the few areas where I feel like I am a top down processor is when it comes to travel, I'm totally fine to be like, okay, this is, this is the destination and I'll figure out everything else along the way.

Aaron: And you have at least a place to go. 

Amy: Right. Have the girls ever been? Wow. 

Jon: No. No. Lydia was, but the girls never, they've been to Ireland, but they've never been in England, but they've never been to Africa.

Kimie: Be nice.

Jon: I'll tell you a little secret though. Huh? I went back to Africa. Three months after I started here, 'cause I had a job offer, not a job offer, not a job offer prospect. It was not an offer, it was a theatre in Cape Town called the Baxter Theatre they were looking for a new managing director and, um, I went, they flew me back to Cape Town to do the interview. And 

Amy: I bet BTE didn't fly you out for your interview, did they? 

Jon: They did. 

Amy: Oh, they did. They did. 

Jon: They're From LA Wow. Twice. 

Aaron: Plane tickets were cheaper back then, 

Jon: but yeah. And the Baxter Theater is now the, it's now, I think, you know, the Market Theatre for all those years was the premier theater in the country in terms of.

Generating new work and you know, right on cutting edge of South African theatre and politics and all that. The Baxter is now to some degree the place that is doing, some really exciting work. And anyway, back in 2000, 

Aaron: mm-hmm. 

Jon: Just after I got here, just after. The girls arrived. I flew back to Cape Town.

And it turned out that my old boss, who I had asked for a reference, right, he was very influential in theatre circles. He gave me a reference for the job, and then he applied for the job. He's still a friend. He's still a friend. He's still a friend. Whoa. And he. And he got the job. And when I think about it, he was the best person for the job.

For the job. 

Kimie: Did he ask you for reference? 

Amy: That would've been really funny. 

Jon: He didn't, I can't remember actually if he did or he didn't. 

Amy: I wonder what it was like for that hiring committee to like see his recommendation letter and then see his application. 

Jon: I don't know. I don't think they gave a damn. I think they just we're looking for whatever.

Kimie: Yeah. I just don want you to know that you should safet anyone who knows that your secret don think is safe. I don't Anyone who knows that nobody will. 

Amy: No one will. No one will know the secret. Yeah. We're definitely not gonna broadcast it on the airwaves. 

Aaron: Interwebs. 

Amy: The internet. Yeah. Yeah. Jon you had two, two distinct times here. Spanning what, 20, 20 years? 20. 

Jon: Just a little under 20. If we, if we wanna be accurate. 

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Do you have, a favorite memory or. 

Jon: A favorite memory moment, 

Amy: or you did the most, do you have a favorite? BTE specific 

Kimie: Raise the Region not withstanding. 

Yeah. 

Amy: Yeah. No Raise the Region.

Jon: Oh, okay. So I can't say raise the region.

Aaron: No, you can't. Um, I've thought about it in terms of shows, do I have a favorite show or, or whatever. And there's a bunch of them. And I had to, read through the list of plays to remember, because plays come and they go. They're everything at the time they're happening, and then they're done.

And then you're onto next.

Amy: Ephemeral. 

Jon: Then you're onto the next.. And I don't remember all the plays. I mean, I don't think there is a particular BTE moment. I think the thing for me has been the people. That's my biggest takeaway from this whole, 20 years, is the friends that I've made, the connections that I've made. And yeah I think the other piece to it is watching some of the kids who started young and then grew up through, and then came back as adults. And you know, there are some who came who were here. They weren't little kids. They were sort of older and then went away and then came back and directed plays here.

So I've always felt, really proud to be able to talk about that as a product of BTE. I think my favorite show was Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. For a whole host of reasons. Yeah. Um, I loved Witch 12th Night watching it where I watched it in Lewisburg. That performance blew me away. And, um, yeah, I loved Georgia McBride. 

Oh yeah, that was a favorite. 

Kimie: Still have confetti falling from the ceiling. 

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Georgia McBride still shows up. Uh, every now and then a singular piece of confetti will just randomly fall. 

Jon: And I think for me, that illustrated something that we were all really anxious and nervous about putting that play on. And then people just came, loved it, and I think, and they loved it. And I think it's kind of like a little lesson. Probably I never, took on board. 

But the idea that 

Amy: You were nervous about Misery too. 

Jon: Was I? 

Kimie: Oh yeah. 

Aaron: programming it in January? You didn't think it would make? 

Jon: There you go. You see, 

Aaron: Because people never came out in January. 

Jon: But there you go. Then. 

Amy: But John, you, your record is, is pretty astonishing. You have a great understanding of this community and of our audience and theatre and I might tease you for the, like, very rare, times you get it wrong, you are right more often than you're ever, ever wrong.

Jon: Oh, that's good to hear. I think that is nice to hear. And I, you know, the shows that I liked, that I liked the best were the ones, I mean, there were some shows we did that I didn't care about the characters. And then I'm done. Oh, yeah. You know, 

Amy: I think we have that as actors too. There are shows we do sometimes where Yeah, you just, you don't some roles you really, really, really connect with and some roles you don't.

Aaron: Mm-hmm. Sometimes it's a job. 

Amy: Yeah. Sometimes it's a job. Sometimes you genuinely miss saying goodbye to a character. 

Kimie: I cried to three straight days after Witch. 

Amy: Did you really? 

Kimie: Did I You what? I, I cried for three straight days after, after wi, Witch was over Uhhuh. And I don't normally have that kind of mm-hmm.

Show. Mm-hmm. 

Amy: Witch was a really special one, really was. 

Jon: There are some shows that I used to be able to come back and watch, and then it wasn't like I watched can set and watched the whole show again, but I'd watch snippets of it mm-hmm. During the run of it and I'd stand up at the back and just watch, 

Kimie: Oh, I've seen, I've spotted you.

Jon: And that was one of, Witch was one of them. Uh, and George McBride was one of them. Gun Powder Joe was another one of them. Yeah. So there are many memories. But there's no sort of, I can't, other than just the people. 

That's what's been important over the last 20 years and that's why I came back.

Mm-hmm. It's 'cause of the people. 

Amy: Do you think there, 

Kimie: That's why you'll come back again 

Jon: With my stick.

Amy: Do you think there are any ways in which BTE has changed you? I know you've changed BTE in a lot of great ways. 

Jon: Changed me. 

Amy: Yeah. I, other than hair color of my hair,

Jon: it probably has and probably I'm too close to it still to, yeah. To kind of know what those, what those changes are. Yeah. Um. 

Amy: I didn't do a great job of, of introing us at the beginning. When did you officially retire? 

Jon: September the first. 

Amy: September the first. Oh, 

Jon: August 31st. So 

Amy: they'll, people will be, this will be releasing exactly a month.

Exactly a month after your retirement. 

Aaron: Okay. 

Well, thanks for taking a couple minutes outta your, your retirement. 

Jon: Busy, busy day. 

Aaron: Your busy retired day 

Amy: John, we're, we're so thankful for you and all that you have done, and I hope that your retirement is happy and full of travel. 

Aaron: Yeah, 

Jon: I would like it to be, yes, I would like to be happy. I would like there to be some travel. I will be around and I'm planning to help where I'm needed.

Amy: Oh, we will, we will put you to work where I'm on. 

Kimie: Do you wanna work backstage?

Jon: I'm happy. 

Amy: What was this? Talk about designing. 

Jon: I'm happy to work where I am asked and where I can. Be safe, uh, where I can be productive as opposed to just, 

Amy: you don't wanna go up on the catwalk 

Jon: not being up there. You wanna be a 

Amy: spotlight operator? 

Jon: I've done that. That's where I started. 

Amy: Huh?

Aaron: Started. Started with spot opp?. I started as what? 

Amy: Jesus. Was it a gas lamp? Please don't hurt me. I love you. 

Jon: It's not gonna be a stick in. What? But what I was gonna, because just talking about the, talking about the dimmers. The dimmer, yeah. The, the ones that they, when they went on this tour to Africa and they were playing in different places, that a guy who, I forget William J. He went as a technician. And Rand was talking about these dimmers that they had to work with these great big wheels and things that basically a board the size of that wall there. Yeah. And you kind of had to ding, ding, ding. We, we, so I've operated all those things. I come from the dark past. 

Amy: No, no, no. But that, that technology makes sense to me. I feel like now is so 

Aaron: devoid from cause and effect.. 

Kimie: You should come, you should do a class at High School TheatTheatreshop Day about theatre history and, and like particularly backstage theatre history.

Jon: Who knows? Who knows? But yeah, I mean. I want to be, I want to be useful if I'm, able and available. and I know, I think I'll be probably making some calls around March. 

Amy: I bet you will. And there are probably some people that would be very sad not to hear from you. 

Jon: Well, yeah. 

Aaron: well, thanks Jon.

Jon: Thank you. 

Amy: Yeah. Thank you, John. 

Jon: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you for inviting me to do this. 

Amy: Of course. 

Aaron: Coming up on October 24th, 2025 at 6:00 PM at Brew's Coffee and Bar,

we will be holding another Play Tasting. Play Tastings are back! 

Amy: Yeah, they're returning. Yay. What is a Play Tasting for anybody that may not know? 

Aaron: Play tasting is where we sit and we read the play. We will have our scripts in front of us, but we'll be acting that play as well. And while 

Kimie: We read it out loud to you, 

Aaron: We read it out loud.

Yes. We don't read it to ourselves. 

Amy: Come and sit and watch us read in silence. 

Aaron: Delightful. We read the play out loud. Sometimes with like vague costuming, but for the most part, just reading the play with stage directions while you enjoy some delightful, food and beverages from a partner restaurant.

In the community and this time around it is Brewskis in downtown Bloomsburg, and we'll be reading drum.

The Birds, adapted by Connor McPherson from a story by Daphne de 

Kimie: Marrie 

Aaron: Marrie, and, uh, more widely known, uh, as the, uh, source material for The Birds by Alfred Hitchcock, 

Amy: which is a great tie in, to our show that is currently on BTE's main stage, The 39 Steps, 

Aaron: also a Hitchcock film. 

Amy: Also has some birds. 

Kimie: You'll get a little Bird's preview in in The 39 Steps. 

Aaron: Yeah. in preparation for your Halloween fair, if you want something a little spooky, a little, macab, you can come see The Birds play tasting on October 24th. It is a $55 admission, but that includes the meal and the ticket for the show. 

Amy: Dinner and a show, baby 

Aaron: Dinner and a show. 

Jon: Where is it taking place? 

Aaron: At Brewskis! 

Jon: Oh, yeah. 

Aaron: Yeah. 

Amy: You can get your tickets online@www.bte.org. 

Jon: Fabulous. 

Amy: This has been Bloomsburg Theatre Ensemble: Down Center, Ensemble Driven, Professional Theater, Arts Education, Rural Pennsylvania, For Everyone. With everyone. Tickets for our October play tasting, and all our season main stage productions are available@www.bte.org. Turn off your phone Kimie and tell your friends.

Jon: God, I hope mine doesn't ring now. 

Kimie: Mine was not the only one that went off during that recording. Okay, 

Amy: true.

 Just, you can just stop and go. I'm gonna re-say that, or you could just make a, a bird squawk. Okay. Or, um, 

Jon: Make a, what? What did she say? 

Aaron: Bird squawk. I was just, we never do that. But she's asking you to do it. 

Jon: Oh yeah. I think she just wants to take the piss out of me is what? No, 

Amy: I just love John and I show my love by teasing.